You must have all heard of the name Vyasa who was a great seer, a visionary, a man of great wisdom and also a literary giant. He has said that the person who knows, ‘what he is’ and the person who knows, ‘what he is not’, is the real knower! Which means that if I know what exists and what does not, only then can I be considered to be a ‘knower’.

Here is an object, there are two things here; that which is not going to exist forever and that which exists forever. That which appears and disappears; and that which may not appear, but does not disappear ever. The first kind is called appearance and the second is called Real. There is something which is real here; and there is also something which is not real but only apparent. It appears with its colour, size and shape. These qualities don’t exist by themselves nor do they exist forever. The colour disappears, it fades out; the shape shrinks; but something remains there, which does not disappear; something as the basis for these qualities, there must be some substance that these qualities depend on, because qualities cannot just hang in the air. But that substance does not need these qualities for its existence. This is the difference between these two.

Here is another example – there is clay and then there is earth. You can make a statue out of them and that statue will be very beautiful consisting of several parts like the head, limbs etc., Using the earth you create the statue, but can you create the earth itself? Earth exists by itself; we then give a shape to that earth and say this is a beautiful statue. Earth has no legs, no head or no hands; but without the earth, there is no statue. Statue has all these things, but statue does not exist by itself. If there must be a statue, there must be the earth behind it. But for the earth itself, the statue is not needed. Its existence is not dependent on the statue, but the statue is dependent on earth. Here, we say the earth is Real and statue is not real. Real means to be self-existent and dependent object is not Real.

Existence has two forms – Non-dependent existence i.e. existing by itself and not dependent on anything else; and the second form is dependent existence. For example, you are there i.e. you are not self-dependent; you depend on so many things for your existence. If I have to live, I would need so many things, you must be there, there must be the nature and then, ultimately there must be the world as well. If there is no world and there is no nature, I can’t live. My existence is not self-existent, it depends on so many things that are in this world. Therefore, this is not the Real existence but a dependent existence.

Another example; you are there; your spouse is there; you and your spouse are mutually dependent. If there exists no wife, then there will be no husband. Similarly, if there is no husband, there will be no wife. An individual is not a wife or a husband. Those two words itself are dependent on each other. If one of them is removed, the other one is gone. Suppose I say right and left; if there is no left, how can there be right then? If there is no Sunday, how can there be a Monday? If there is no morning, how can there be an evening? The whole world depends upon something or the other. Take any object in this world and it does not exist by itself.

You must all know linear mathematics; in which there exists the triangle. The triangle cannot exist by itself, if it has to be a triangle, it needs lines and if you take away the lines, the triangle then disappears. The triangle here depends upon lines for its existence. In the same way, the circle depends upon the diameter and the diameter depends upon the circumference. If the diameter becomes zero, the circumference will no longer be there; and if the circumference is removed, where is the diameter? Now, look inside a circle, there is always point. This does not depend upon anything! The center or the point does not depend upon anything because the point has no dimensions. Only that object which has independent existence, exists by itself. The point exists by itself whether you write it or not; it is there. You cannot move the point because it has no dimensions. You cannot wipe out the points because they have no dimensions. The circles may be wiped out, the circumference may be removed or the diameter may wash away, but not the point! Its existence is an independent existence which means that it is a self-determined existence. These are the two kinds of the existence.

If the body were to exist, you must be there and if you are not there, your body does not exist. You are there and your body depends on ‘you’ i.e. the body’s existence is a dependent existence. But ‘you’ are there like a point; within the body or within the mind. ‘You’ have no dimensions. That which does not have dimensions, does not need anything to exist. Atman is there and that is you. That is the point within the body and within the mind. But that Atman does not depend on anything of this world. The body may appear or disappear, but Atman remains the same. The circle may appear or disappear, but the central point is always there. Body appears and disappears, but Atman does not disappear. It does not cease to exist. Just see the nature of the point. The point is there always, it is not written. Write any circle and there is always a point. You don’t bring the point into the circle later.

If a body exists then, Atman is there. You don’t bring Atman into the body. Body is there and then there is Atman. Remove the body and Atman is everywhere. Atman is everywhere! This is grandeur of the spirit, of the Self, of Atman! There are two things with us, first is the body and the second is the mind. We see the body but we may not see the mind. But without the mind, we cannot live. Mind is there, body is there; they are created things. They have dimensions and facets to them, but ‘you’ have no dimensions. Your body may be six feet, but what about you? You are not six feet or seven feet, you simply cannot be measured. Mind may be measured; we say that the mind is very small or big. But I am neither small nor big because, I am such a thing that has no dimensions.

Is it not a wonderful thing? The body is like a circle and the mind is like the space within the circle and Atman is like the point. We don’t write the point; it is always there. If the body is there, if there is mind in that body; then automatically there appears the Atman.

The Atman is not created whereas the body and mind are created by nature. Whatever has dimensions may be created but if something which has no dimensions, it can’t be created. Therefore, Vyasa says whatever exists, you cannot destroy it; whatever does not exist, you cannot bring it into existence. This is the grandeur of the Atman and non-Atman. You are the combination of both of these. One part of you does die, but the other part of you does not die. You cannot make your body live forever. Take any tonics or eat anything, but you cannot live forever. You cannot make your body live for 200-300 years. You live for some time and after that your body will disintegrate, because its existence is a dependent-existence and not nondependent-existence. It depends on so many things of the world, therefore it has to disappear. If the earth itself is not permanent, how can you make your body permanent? If the sun himself is not permanent, how can you make your mind permanent? If the nature is going to disappear one day or the other, how can you make your body live eternally? Is it possible? But the center is always there and that is Atman.

That can’t be destroyed because it has no measurable dimensions. It cannot be measured by time and space. You can’t measure it by the measuring rod or any other instruments. Time may be there; we ask how old are you? The body maybe 50-60 years old but you? How old are you? We can say how old is the circle or the diameter, but how old is the point? It has no beginning or any end; and hence it cannot be measured by hours or years. The same way Atman is immeasurable. The body may be described as beautiful or ugly, but can you describe you or the Atman to be beautiful? Only that which has features or shape can be described to be beautiful or ugly. We say this person is beautiful, if the person has pleasant looking features. But what about the Self? Can you describe it? Can you measure it? If it has no beginning or end; if it has no dimensions at all; then time cannot act on it, the space cannot confine it; which means it is free and unaffected by the flow of the time and space even. This is Atman.

Unlike Atman, the mind changes every moment. For example, you come here and while returning back you find out that your pocket is empty as you have been robbed. What happens then? The body remains the same, but the mind changes. It forgets gets all the pleasure that you got here from the nature and immediately changes by saying “these people are not good”. But instead if somebody were to put some money in your pocket, then you say “Look, how good are people”! Just observe how quickly the mind changes; it is so fickle. The body on the other hand does not change so fast. This mind is not permanent and whatever that changes is not permanent. Therefore, you are not the body or the mind, you are something that does not change. That which does not change is Atman.

Where is it? You can’t really tell. If the body appears it is there and if the body disappears, where does it go? Where does the center of the circle go? It does not go at all, there are centers everywhere. Write a circle and there is a center. Produce a body and there is Atman. Body dies, Atman disappears but it does not die because time has no ability to touch it; space cannot bind it. It is free always. There Atman is eternal! Its existence is self-dependent. But the existence of body is not self-dependent, the mind cannot exist by itself. Hence, they are not eternal. Only that which exists by itself can be said to be eternal. Therefore, Atman is eternal; mind and body are not. But we give more importance to the body and the mind.

We take so much care of the body but we never think of the point within it. No teacher worries about central point but worries instead only on the circle. We don’t worry about ourselves, we worry about the bodies, about the mind and its desires. The whole life is spent to satisfy our desires and the whole life is spent to keep the body in good health. The whole life! But nobody worries about the Self because it does not need any worrying. If it does not change, where is the need for worrying?

Atman is Atman, you are Atman; you are not the body; you are not the mind. But we forget that we are Atman. Every time we write a circle, we forget the point. We say this circle is big or small but we never think or look at the point. This is because something veils our intelligence and hence that intelligence does not take much interest in knowing what is true and what is false. However, the people who were constantly worried about the central point, came to know that they are nothing; they have no dimensions; that they are non-dimensional reality; that they are self-existent reality. The appearance is outside and the reality is inside. If the body disappears, the Reality is everywhere, it is omnipresent. This is the knowledge of Atman and the body. That is why Vyasa Maharshi says whatever exists, exists and whatever does not exist i.e. if they have dimensions and are going to disappear from the world, why do you worry about them? Just think about the body and mind, use them, but don’t think that your existence depends upon them.

. You are not beautiful because your body is beautiful or you are not peaceful because your mind is peaceful. Mind is different, body is different and Atman is different. The circle may be big or small, but the point itself is never big or small. In the same way body may be big or small, mind may be big or small; but not you! You are neither small nor big. Just see the beauty of it! If you are neither big nor small, neither beautiful nor ugly, where then is the need for worrying? Think of it! Therefore, know ‘that’ which is there from eternity and know ‘that’ whose existence is not affected by flow of time. What happens then? You are you! You will be freed from all worries, pains and pleasures. Everything disappears and you live by yourselves and there will be no change in you. Nothing is going to happen to you. You won’t be freed or put in bondage. Freedom is for the body and the mind, but not for the Atman. This is how Vyasa Maharshi puts it.

Basaveshwara also says the same thing in the same way; “Koodala sangama is Real and everything else is unreal. That which was there in the beginning, that which will be there in the end and that which does not change at all, that is Sangama and that is Real.

Whatever else is not real. I am of Koodala Sangama. Antahranga, Bahiranga Atma sanga onde ayya, naada bindu kalaatita, aadi aadhara neene ayya.” (Naada, bindu, kala; these are changing factors but that which is supporting these things is not changing). Aadi aadhara neene ayya – see how beautifully he has put the description. That is the description of the Atman. He says I am I. I am not this; I am not that; I am simply I. Therefore, where is the need for worrying? Body comes, body suffers, and then it goes. Mind comes, thinks too much, cares too much and then it disappears. O man! You are not either of these two things.

Tanu nashta, mana nashta, bhava nashta, aa nashtada olage na nashta, na nashatavaadalli nee nashta; see how beautifully he puts here – ‘naanu’ (I am) is not permanent, ’neenu’(you) is not permament; tanu nashta, tanu goes away, body disappears; ‘mana’ nashta, mind disappears; bhava nashta i.e. the feelings disappear. If these three things disappear, where is the possibility of I existing in this world? O God, if I also disappear, then where are you? You are also nashta! I depend on you and you depend on me and we are mutually dependent. If I am not there, you are not there. What remains then is the reality. Not I or you. This is the mystical experience of the great saints of India. They experienced it, they realised the Real nature of themselves and the world and therefore they said, know the nature of the world and know the nature of yourself and only then will you become wise; only then you will become the Real ‘knower’.

The Real knowers are the real seers of the universe; of themselves; and such people live very joyfully in this world. They are freed from all worries and attachments in the world because everything is going to disappear one day or the other. We build a beautiful building, but how long do we live in it? Suppose a person is 60 years old and has built a beautiful building and went there to live joyfully. How long is he going to live in that house? 30-40 years at the most. Then the house is to be renounced, he has to leave the house. Then, his sons come there and they think are going to live there and that, it is their house. But the dying father says take a lesson from my life; “I am not the real owner that I thought I was. Now I have come to know that I am not the owner of anything.”

We think that we are the owners but nothing is going to be ours. It is our own thinking but nothing is going to be with us forever. We think that the world is going to be there forever, we have to change the world. But man, you are constantly changing. Other people think that you are to be changed. Just look into your family, you want to change them and they want to change you. Is it not? Wife thinks husband is to be changed and the husband thinks his wife is to be changed. Both of them try to change each other for 50 years, but nobody changes; never to the others’ satisfaction at least. They tried, tried and tried but they failed to change the other. The same thing is true of the world.

We want to change the world. What are we going to change? We ourselves won’t be there, our thoughts are changing, our feelings are changing, our desires are changing; what is not changing? Everything changes and the whole world is changing. If I am changing, how can you say that the world should not change or that it should change only according to my idea? Is it possible? No, it is not possible

O Man! Just learn that you are here just to enjoy and do whatever is possible. What is possible? You come here and then keep the ground clean. But thoughts like, I am going to keep it clean forever are pointless. Tomorrow again, the broom has to be used again. Tomorrow someone will again make it untidy and it has to be swept again, which means there is nothing permanent here. Cleanliness is also not permanent; uncleanliness is also not permanent. This world is going on changing and changing, it goes on changing! The body goes on changing, the mind goes on changing and you go on changing. Then how can we make the things to remain unchanging? Is it even possible?

Many people came to this world, of them a great poet says –

“Mandhata cha mahipatihi krutayugaalankara bhooto gataha. Seturyena mahodadho virachitaha kchaaso dashaasyaantakaha”

Hundreds of people such as Rama, Mandatha and many great kings came into this world and lived here. They then left from this world one day, but the world is still here. They have gone away, you are also going away one day or the other, you will definitely go. But as long as you are here, why not live joyfully! Why do you worry so much about the changing world? If possible, do something, but don’t think that the whole world will change according to you and your thoughts. Your thoughts themselves are in fact changing. That is the wonder of it. You are changing but we don’t want others to change. Is it not a wonderful thing? What is real here? What is unreal here? This is what we have to know to live happily in this world. Now when you go back to your houses, you see that whatever is there, is going to be there itself. You are not going to change much, that gives you joy.

My house will be my house though it becomes older and older every day. You can’t say today it is beautiful and tomorrow it is not. But this usually happens, our thoughts constantly change; when we were children, our thoughts were different; when we were highly educated our thoughts became different; when we become old, our thoughts become quite different; and when we are leaving the world, our thoughts will be different again. Then you think, what is there in life, it is only a dream. This is the vision at the time of the leaving. All the people in my house cannot help me when I have to leave, I have to leave everything. Leave everything in two ways – leave everything here and leave from here. We have to leave the body, we have to leave the house, we have to leave all the wealth that we have collected all our lives and we have to leave the world itself. We leave the body, the mind and everything and then go and disappear in Koodala Sangama. Basaveshwara tried and tried and went into Koodala Sangama. He said, “Now I shall not return here.

. I won’t come into life again. I have seen so much, I have done so much, now I have come to know that nothing can be done in this world. Let me go.” That is the reality and if we have that knowledge when our body and mind are fresh, then we can live whole of our life joyfully by doing good things, great things but never worrying or getting attached to them. Just, love the world, that love which exists forever. Just go on loving the flowers, don’t hate them because they are going to fade away soon. They are beautiful, fresh and fragrant now; get joy from seeing them and experiencing the sweet fragrance from them! The flowers say, “Why do you worry about me? I may not be there in the evening; I may not be there in the morning; but when I am in full bloom, enjoy me.” The same thing we have to do here in this world as well! Now we come to an end, it is two minutes past seven. I am sorry for taking your two minutes. Let me offer my Pranaams once again, Namaskar!